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	<title>Comments on: Build Your Own U.S. Navy (Updated and Bumped)</title>
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	<description>We go to war so you don&#039;t have to.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 15:58:29 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Build Your Own Navy:Canada Edition &#171; New Wars</title>
		<link>http://www.warisboring.com/?p=1571&#038;cpage=1#comment-1370741</link>
		<dc:creator>Build Your Own Navy:Canada Edition &#171; New Wars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 16:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warisboring.com/?p=1571#comment-1370741</guid>
		<description>[...] is a little game that was originally conceived by David Axe at War is Boring, and which New Wars has put its own spin upon. For this particular post we will play around with [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is a little game that was originally conceived by David Axe at War is Boring, and which New Wars has put its own spin upon. For this particular post we will play around with [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Build Your Own Navy-Radicalized! &#171; New Wars</title>
		<link>http://www.warisboring.com/?p=1571&#038;cpage=1#comment-1141188</link>
		<dc:creator>Build Your Own Navy-Radicalized! &#171; New Wars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warisboring.com/?p=1571#comment-1141188</guid>
		<description>[...] Here is Axe&#8217;s original post for reference. I think I will stick with his original estimate that the USN will average $14 billion annually for now. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Here is Axe&#8217;s original post for reference. I think I will stick with his original estimate that the USN will average $14 billion annually for now. [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Douglas</title>
		<link>http://www.warisboring.com/?p=1571&#038;cpage=1#comment-902990</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 02:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warisboring.com/?p=1571#comment-902990</guid>
		<description>Can we get a real chance to build a balanced ,larger fleet with Cruisers ,Frigates ,Corvettes ,Diesel subs ,and full pallet of amphib ships and Coastal Patrol Ships and Support ships. Some of the previous mentioned suggestions for frigates for example,but there is no agreement on points/cost.I think you would see some great ideas!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can we get a real chance to build a balanced ,larger fleet with Cruisers ,Frigates ,Corvettes ,Diesel subs ,and full pallet of amphib ships and Coastal Patrol Ships and Support ships. Some of the previous mentioned suggestions for frigates for example,but there is no agreement on points/cost.I think you would see some great ideas!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Douglas</title>
		<link>http://www.warisboring.com/?p=1571&#038;cpage=1#comment-902934</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 01:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warisboring.com/?p=1571#comment-902934</guid>
		<description>With the limits of ship selection-No frigates, cruisers, corvette types, diesel subs or other amphib types other support types this was my best mix - 
10 CVN-21
30 SSN-774
12 DD-1000
30 DD-51
25 LCS
20 JHSV
18 T-AKE
10 LPA
18 LPD

This works out to exactly 4200 units.It gives enough support ships to CVBG and ESG with enough smaller vessels for littoral /coastal groups and preserving a respectable submarine arm and support force. I personally think the navy should gear more toward frigates and corvette types to blend with LCS&#039;s and patrol craft.Influence Squadrons are far to weak to intervene in coastal support with a single DD and 1 LCS and could easily be over matched .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With the limits of ship selection-No frigates, cruisers, corvette types, diesel subs or other amphib types other support types this was my best mix &#8211;<br />
10 CVN-21<br />
30 SSN-774<br />
12 DD-1000<br />
30 DD-51<br />
25 LCS<br />
20 JHSV<br />
18 T-AKE<br />
10 LPA<br />
18 LPD</p>
<p>This works out to exactly 4200 units.It gives enough support ships to CVBG and ESG with enough smaller vessels for littoral /coastal groups and preserving a respectable submarine arm and support force. I personally think the navy should gear more toward frigates and corvette types to blend with LCS&#8217;s and patrol craft.Influence Squadrons are far to weak to intervene in coastal support with a single DD and 1 LCS and could easily be over matched .</p>
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		<title>By: Heretic</title>
		<link>http://www.warisboring.com/?p=1571&#038;cpage=1#comment-820713</link>
		<dc:creator>Heretic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 05:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warisboring.com/?p=1571#comment-820713</guid>
		<description>Carrier Strike: 250 (7 hulls)
1x CVN-21 = 130
3x DDG-51 = 75
2x SSN-774 = 40
1x T-AKE = 5

Amphibious Assault: 126 (9 hulls)
1x LHA-6 = 40
2x LPD-17 = 30
3x JHSV = 6
1x DDG-51 = 25
1x SSN-774 = 20
1x T-AKE = 5

Littoral Interdiction: 44 (8 hulls)
7x LCS = 42
1x JHSV = 2


10x Carrier Strike = 2500 (70 hulls)
10x Amphibious Assault = 1260 (90 hulls)
10x Littoral Interdiction = 640 (80 hulls)

Total cost: 4200
Total number of hulls: 240


Fleet totals:
10x CVN-21
40x DDG-51
30x SSN-774
10x LHA-6
20x LPD-17
70x LCS
40x JHSV
20x T-AKE
= 240 hulls



Okay, so it&#039;s not a 313 ship/boat navy ... but that&#039;s kinda sorta what the whole exercise is pointing out now isn&#039;t it?  I could reach the 313 ship/boat navy &quot;ideal&quot; by sacrificing two carrier strike groups and two amphibious assault groups, and then plowing the savings gained back into littoral interdiction groups.  You then wind up with a 8/8/27 mix of groups, rather than the 10/10/10 I&#039;ve got here, for a total of 344 ships/boats (and I&#039;m not sure I&#039;d really want 55% of the hulls in the water to be LCS types in such a scenario).

The thing is though, groups of 10 like this are really convenient for deployment rotations.  It lets you keep 3 or 4 groups of each type on active deployment at all times around the world, depending on operations tempo, while permitting sufficient downtime on the other groups for replenishment, training, R&amp;R and SLEP.  That allows a &quot;permanent&quot; force projection stance to be maintained, along with a high degree of readiness.

No there are no Zumwalts in this plan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carrier Strike: 250 (7 hulls)<br />
1x CVN-21 = 130<br />
3x DDG-51 = 75<br />
2x SSN-774 = 40<br />
1x T-AKE = 5</p>
<p>Amphibious Assault: 126 (9 hulls)<br />
1x LHA-6 = 40<br />
2x LPD-17 = 30<br />
3x JHSV = 6<br />
1x DDG-51 = 25<br />
1x SSN-774 = 20<br />
1x T-AKE = 5</p>
<p>Littoral Interdiction: 44 (8 hulls)<br />
7x LCS = 42<br />
1x JHSV = 2</p>
<p>10x Carrier Strike = 2500 (70 hulls)<br />
10x Amphibious Assault = 1260 (90 hulls)<br />
10x Littoral Interdiction = 640 (80 hulls)</p>
<p>Total cost: 4200<br />
Total number of hulls: 240</p>
<p>Fleet totals:<br />
10x CVN-21<br />
40x DDG-51<br />
30x SSN-774<br />
10x LHA-6<br />
20x LPD-17<br />
70x LCS<br />
40x JHSV<br />
20x T-AKE<br />
= 240 hulls</p>
<p>Okay, so it&#8217;s not a 313 ship/boat navy &#8230; but that&#8217;s kinda sorta what the whole exercise is pointing out now isn&#8217;t it?  I could reach the 313 ship/boat navy &#8220;ideal&#8221; by sacrificing two carrier strike groups and two amphibious assault groups, and then plowing the savings gained back into littoral interdiction groups.  You then wind up with a 8/8/27 mix of groups, rather than the 10/10/10 I&#8217;ve got here, for a total of 344 ships/boats (and I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;d really want 55% of the hulls in the water to be LCS types in such a scenario).</p>
<p>The thing is though, groups of 10 like this are really convenient for deployment rotations.  It lets you keep 3 or 4 groups of each type on active deployment at all times around the world, depending on operations tempo, while permitting sufficient downtime on the other groups for replenishment, training, R&amp;R and SLEP.  That allows a &#8220;permanent&#8221; force projection stance to be maintained, along with a high degree of readiness.</p>
<p>No there are no Zumwalts in this plan.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: War Is Boring</title>
		<link>http://www.warisboring.com/?p=1571&#038;cpage=1#comment-809126</link>
		<dc:creator>War Is Boring</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 04:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warisboring.com/?p=1571#comment-809126</guid>
		<description>[...] President Barack Obama will unveil his 2010 budget on Thursday, and the military expects big cuts to their spending plans. How big? The Navy was hoping for as much as $26 billion a year to build ships, and will probably get only $14 billion. The Air Force is desperate for 60 more F-22 fighters at a cost of nearly $10 billion, and the only way they&#8217;ll get them is with commiserate cuts to other programs. The Army is bracing itself for a major slash to its pet project, the $160-billion Future Combat Systems family of technologies. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] President Barack Obama will unveil his 2010 budget on Thursday, and the military expects big cuts to their spending plans. How big? The Navy was hoping for as much as $26 billion a year to build ships, and will probably get only $14 billion. The Air Force is desperate for 60 more F-22 fighters at a cost of nearly $10 billion, and the only way they&#8217;ll get them is with commiserate cuts to other programs. The Army is bracing itself for a major slash to its pet project, the $160-billion Future Combat Systems family of technologies. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mitko</title>
		<link>http://www.warisboring.com/?p=1571&#038;cpage=1#comment-808656</link>
		<dc:creator>Mitko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 15:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warisboring.com/?p=1571#comment-808656</guid>
		<description>The survice life of CVN is 50 years and this is a 30 year plan. So you need to build only 6 to keep 10, or only 5 to keep 8, or 4 to keep 6.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The survice life of CVN is 50 years and this is a 30 year plan. So you need to build only 6 to keep 10, or only 5 to keep 8, or 4 to keep 6.</p>
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		<title>By: matt s</title>
		<link>http://www.warisboring.com/?p=1571&#038;cpage=1#comment-807901</link>
		<dc:creator>matt s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:16:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warisboring.com/?p=1571#comment-807901</guid>
		<description>This DDG-1000 needs to go. Its a waste and the USN will only get maybe 2 or 3 and have to sacrifice a updated Arleigh Burkes. I dont know about the LCS, its off to an awful start. it looks like a big lightly armed ship. I think the navy would be better off with an off the shelf light frigate or corvette type. There are plenty of designs out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This DDG-1000 needs to go. Its a waste and the USN will only get maybe 2 or 3 and have to sacrifice a updated Arleigh Burkes. I dont know about the LCS, its off to an awful start. it looks like a big lightly armed ship. I think the navy would be better off with an off the shelf light frigate or corvette type. There are plenty of designs out there.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Prestwick</title>
		<link>http://www.warisboring.com/?p=1571&#038;cpage=1#comment-805766</link>
		<dc:creator>Prestwick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 17:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warisboring.com/?p=1571#comment-805766</guid>
		<description>6 x CVN-21 (780): (You don&#039;t *need* 10 Aircraft Carriers to patrol the world and provide a rapid and adequate response to a major crisis. The Royal Navy proved that by taking the Falklands on a shoestring, 6 new Ford Carriers and gradually pay off the existing ones as each new one comes on stream. With the amount of firepower on an average Ford-class Carrier you could just have three and still dominate the seas.)

40 x SSN-774 (800): A strong submarine force is vital for fleet defence as well as to confuse the enemy. Again, HMS Conqurer and the Falklands. By sinking the Belgrano, she virtually forced the Argentine fleet to port on her own. That is how valuable a decent submarine manned by a well trained crew can be. 

10 x DDG-1000 (500): Now, these you DO need. By only selecting six David, you&#039;re painting yourself into the same corner that the MoD in the UK is by only building Six Type 45s. It doesn&#039;t matter that there are going to be lots more DDG-51 to fill the gap, you need a bare minimum of the best Destroyer you have to make sure that you can spread them across the globe and still have a reserve in case of emergency, parts, training, etc. Just having six for fleet defence and nothing more is cutting it way too fine.

25 x DDG-51 (625)

15 x LCS (90)

15 x LPD-17 (225)

10 x LHA-6 (400)

35 (175) x T-AKE: These new logistics ships are really interesting in their modular design and uses. Build as many as you can.

10 x (20) JHSV

Total Fleet = 166

Total cost = 3615

There you go! Under budget and yet still delivering a strong and robust navy which can still sink the navies of Europe, China and Russia combined. Happy days, lets go celebrate.

If you add any patrol ships..you know..like the ones which could be used off the coast of Aden right now, then these can be paid for by the huge savings I&#039;ve engineered. 

Tell Obama I&#039;ll be on my mobile and skype tonight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>6 x CVN-21 (780): (You don&#8217;t *need* 10 Aircraft Carriers to patrol the world and provide a rapid and adequate response to a major crisis. The Royal Navy proved that by taking the Falklands on a shoestring, 6 new Ford Carriers and gradually pay off the existing ones as each new one comes on stream. With the amount of firepower on an average Ford-class Carrier you could just have three and still dominate the seas.)</p>
<p>40 x SSN-774 (800): A strong submarine force is vital for fleet defence as well as to confuse the enemy. Again, HMS Conqurer and the Falklands. By sinking the Belgrano, she virtually forced the Argentine fleet to port on her own. That is how valuable a decent submarine manned by a well trained crew can be. </p>
<p>10 x DDG-1000 (500): Now, these you DO need. By only selecting six David, you&#8217;re painting yourself into the same corner that the MoD in the UK is by only building Six Type 45s. It doesn&#8217;t matter that there are going to be lots more DDG-51 to fill the gap, you need a bare minimum of the best Destroyer you have to make sure that you can spread them across the globe and still have a reserve in case of emergency, parts, training, etc. Just having six for fleet defence and nothing more is cutting it way too fine.</p>
<p>25 x DDG-51 (625)</p>
<p>15 x LCS (90)</p>
<p>15 x LPD-17 (225)</p>
<p>10 x LHA-6 (400)</p>
<p>35 (175) x T-AKE: These new logistics ships are really interesting in their modular design and uses. Build as many as you can.</p>
<p>10 x (20) JHSV</p>
<p>Total Fleet = 166</p>
<p>Total cost = 3615</p>
<p>There you go! Under budget and yet still delivering a strong and robust navy which can still sink the navies of Europe, China and Russia combined. Happy days, lets go celebrate.</p>
<p>If you add any patrol ships..you know..like the ones which could be used off the coast of Aden right now, then these can be paid for by the huge savings I&#8217;ve engineered. </p>
<p>Tell Obama I&#8217;ll be on my mobile and skype tonight.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Andrae</title>
		<link>http://www.warisboring.com/?p=1571&#038;cpage=1#comment-805459</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 09:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warisboring.com/?p=1571#comment-805459</guid>
		<description>See my previous post for the doctrine used to determine this fleet.  My updated fleet is 632 ships, more than twice the desired target of 313.

I&#039;m still a little bothered by the lack of any escort and patrol classes in the options, this biases fleet design towards battleships and away from flotilla.  At minimum an escort frigate and a patrol corvette are required.  I would also love to replace 4 of the LHA&#039;s with true CVE&#039;s.  I follow Smitty&#039;s costings:

FFE : ~4200t Frigate, Air Defence and ASW specialist escort.

OPV : ~2000t Corvette, similar to the NZ Protector OPV. 

I also adopted the T-AO oiler, and MRV ~9000t light amphib.

Summary:

CVN-21      5
LHA-40      7
DDG-51     31
SSN-774    23
FFE       115
LPD-17     13
LCS        23
MRV        10
JHSV       94
OPV       210
T-AKE      43
T-AO       58
Total     632

Detail:

3 Carrier Groups @ 288 for 864:
  CVN    1
  DDG    3
  SSN    1
  FFE    6
  T-AKE  2
  T-AO   2

2 Blockade Groups @ 420 for 840:
  LHA    2
  DDG    2
  SSN   10
  FFE   10
  T-AKE  1
  T-AO   2

12 Commerce Protection Flotilla @ 96 for 1152:
  DDG    1
  FFE    4
  JHSV   7
  OPV   15
  T-AKE  1
  T-AO   2

3 Amphibious Strike Group @ 214 for 642:
  LHA    1
  DDG    2
  FFE    3
  LPD    3
  LCS    5
  MSV    2
  T-AKE  3
  T-AO   2

2 Humanitarian Relief Groups @ 99 for 198:
  LPD    2
  LCS    4
  MRV    2
  JHSV   5
  OPV   15
  T-AKE  2
  T-AO   2

1 Logistics Group @ 245 for 245:
  FFE   20
  T-AKE 10
  T-AO  14

2 Relief Carriers @ 130 for 260:
  CVN    2

If a CVE is available they would replace all the LHA&#039;s in the BG&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See my previous post for the doctrine used to determine this fleet.  My updated fleet is 632 ships, more than twice the desired target of 313.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still a little bothered by the lack of any escort and patrol classes in the options, this biases fleet design towards battleships and away from flotilla.  At minimum an escort frigate and a patrol corvette are required.  I would also love to replace 4 of the LHA&#8217;s with true CVE&#8217;s.  I follow Smitty&#8217;s costings:</p>
<p>FFE : ~4200t Frigate, Air Defence and ASW specialist escort.</p>
<p>OPV : ~2000t Corvette, similar to the NZ Protector OPV. </p>
<p>I also adopted the T-AO oiler, and MRV ~9000t light amphib.</p>
<p>Summary:</p>
<p>CVN-21      5<br />
LHA-40      7<br />
DDG-51     31<br />
SSN-774    23<br />
FFE       115<br />
LPD-17     13<br />
LCS        23<br />
MRV        10<br />
JHSV       94<br />
OPV       210<br />
T-AKE      43<br />
T-AO       58<br />
Total     632</p>
<p>Detail:</p>
<p>3 Carrier Groups @ 288 for 864:<br />
  CVN    1<br />
  DDG    3<br />
  SSN    1<br />
  FFE    6<br />
  T-AKE  2<br />
  T-AO   2</p>
<p>2 Blockade Groups @ 420 for 840:<br />
  LHA    2<br />
  DDG    2<br />
  SSN   10<br />
  FFE   10<br />
  T-AKE  1<br />
  T-AO   2</p>
<p>12 Commerce Protection Flotilla @ 96 for 1152:<br />
  DDG    1<br />
  FFE    4<br />
  JHSV   7<br />
  OPV   15<br />
  T-AKE  1<br />
  T-AO   2</p>
<p>3 Amphibious Strike Group @ 214 for 642:<br />
  LHA    1<br />
  DDG    2<br />
  FFE    3<br />
  LPD    3<br />
  LCS    5<br />
  MSV    2<br />
  T-AKE  3<br />
  T-AO   2</p>
<p>2 Humanitarian Relief Groups @ 99 for 198:<br />
  LPD    2<br />
  LCS    4<br />
  MRV    2<br />
  JHSV   5<br />
  OPV   15<br />
  T-AKE  2<br />
  T-AO   2</p>
<p>1 Logistics Group @ 245 for 245:<br />
  FFE   20<br />
  T-AKE 10<br />
  T-AO  14</p>
<p>2 Relief Carriers @ 130 for 260:<br />
  CVN    2</p>
<p>If a CVE is available they would replace all the LHA&#8217;s in the BG&#8217;s.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: TEJ</title>
		<link>http://www.warisboring.com/?p=1571&#038;cpage=1#comment-804717</link>
		<dc:creator>TEJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:19:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warisboring.com/?p=1571#comment-804717</guid>
		<description>CVN-21: 8
SSN-774: 18
DDG-1000: 0
DDG-51: 79
LCS: 0
LPD-17: 18
LHA-6: 11
T-AKE: 21
Joint HSV: 5

Just added a little blue water to my amphib force.  Would still love to trade a dozen Burkes for 25 frigates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CVN-21: 8<br />
SSN-774: 18<br />
DDG-1000: 0<br />
DDG-51: 79<br />
LCS: 0<br />
LPD-17: 18<br />
LHA-6: 11<br />
T-AKE: 21<br />
Joint HSV: 5</p>
<p>Just added a little blue water to my amphib force.  Would still love to trade a dozen Burkes for 25 frigates.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David Axe</title>
		<link>http://www.warisboring.com/?p=1571&#038;cpage=1#comment-804509</link>
		<dc:creator>David Axe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 09:29:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://warisboring.com/?p=1571#comment-804509</guid>
		<description>My fleet under the old rules included:

6 x CVN-21
40 x SSN-774
20 x LCS
10 x JHSV
26 x T-AKE
20 x LPD-17
10 x LHA-6
6 x DDG-1000
32 x DDG-51

With my $2-billion-a-year Obama bump, I added:

1 x CVN
4 x SSN
30 x LCS
15 x JHSV
8 x T-AKE
2 x LPD
4 x DDG

The LCS and JHSV are for more coverage of the littorals and use as &quot;mini-amphibs.&quot; I&#039;ve added T-AKEs and LPD-17s to support these littoral gators. For blue-water ops, I added some subs, plus one carrier and a few more destroyers to escort the carrier and other ships.

With the Obama bump, my fleet grows from 170 to 234 vessels. This represents a small decrease in blue-water power and a big increase in littoral power compared to today&#039;s fleet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My fleet under the old rules included:</p>
<p>6 x CVN-21<br />
40 x SSN-774<br />
20 x LCS<br />
10 x JHSV<br />
26 x T-AKE<br />
20 x LPD-17<br />
10 x LHA-6<br />
6 x DDG-1000<br />
32 x DDG-51</p>
<p>With my $2-billion-a-year Obama bump, I added:</p>
<p>1 x CVN<br />
4 x SSN<br />
30 x LCS<br />
15 x JHSV<br />
8 x T-AKE<br />
2 x LPD<br />
4 x DDG</p>
<p>The LCS and JHSV are for more coverage of the littorals and use as &#8220;mini-amphibs.&#8221; I&#8217;ve added T-AKEs and LPD-17s to support these littoral gators. For blue-water ops, I added some subs, plus one carrier and a few more destroyers to escort the carrier and other ships.</p>
<p>With the Obama bump, my fleet grows from 170 to 234 vessels. This represents a small decrease in blue-water power and a big increase in littoral power compared to today&#8217;s fleet.</p>
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